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Post by prism_wolf on Mar 15, 2005 19:09:33 GMT -8
What do the traits of the head tell you about what this iguana is?
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Post by SurvivorSteph on Mar 15, 2005 20:22:13 GMT -8
Male, but since you're asking it's probably a female... possibly manly because she's been spayed??
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Post by Tesa on Mar 15, 2005 22:37:17 GMT -8
I'm with Steph. (Thrasher is starting to look more masculine since she was spade)
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Post by Marie on Mar 16, 2005 4:32:34 GMT -8
The jowels look a little flat and the brain bumps seem small so I say it could be a female.
Baby and Dragon's characteristics didn't change with their spay but maybe that was because Baby had gone through 3 seasons and Dragon through 2 already. Dragon already had male characteristics before the spay also. Now Baby still has her ovaries--only her oviducts were removed so that may also be why her characteristics remained the same for her.
Marie
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Post by prism_wolf on Mar 16, 2005 6:52:29 GMT -8
I have never heard of a spay without removing the entire system. The ovaries will still produce eggs won't they?
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Post by Marie on Mar 16, 2005 7:29:48 GMT -8
This is what I was told by my vets recently when Melissa Kaplan (this was discussed about at AIML) said I must be mistaken about or misunderstood how the spays were done and I questioned them.
1st of all, the oviducts send out a signal to the ovaries to produce eggs--the ovaries need to receive that signal. So if that is true the next makes sense to me. The complete removal (nothing left at all) of either the ovaries or oviducts will stop this.
My vets say that the way they do spays is determined by what they find once they open up the iguana. Given that iguanas bleed out so quickly and easily they look at the blood vessels to the the ovaries and oviducts.
They perfer to remove both completely but they will remove either only the ovaries or only the oviducts depending on what they see and what they assess the risks are
The problems occur when something is removed incompletely.
When both are removed you will have problems if even the the tiniest amount of both are missed. But as long as one or the other is completely removed the spay will be successful. The chances are highest that the complete removal of either the ovaries or oviducts will occur when they remove both.
When just the ovaries are removed problems occur when even the tiniest amount of the ovary is left.
When just the oviducts are removed problems occur when even the tiniest amount of the oviduct is left.
That is how my vets explained it to me. I did find out that Dragon had both removed--I had thought both Baby and Dragon still had their ovaries but only Baby does.
The reason I had always known Baby and mistakenly thought Dragon had her ovaries was at the time I had the spays done I had read an article discussing the different ways a spay could be done. It did mention that removing just the oviducts was done by some vets. There was controversy on how a spay should be done on an iguana though. So when I picked up Baby (Dragon's was done first), I asked if they removed the ovaries and I was told no (I assumed Dragon's was not removed also). They gave me their reasoning back then and it made sense to me at the time. I did watch for any signs of egg development during the next year or two but when nothing happened I decided the spays were successful--so I did have some doubts too.
This clinic has been around for a long time. The younger vet has been mentioned as being a great vet on either the IML or AIML (I was reading the archives). The older vet (owner of the clinic) has been mentioned on Melissa's site as advocating animal protein on his care sheets but then goes to say he changed his care sheet. The younger vet said that was about 10-15 years ago before he joined the clinic. So they are at least known in their field.
I sure wish I kept that article or could remember where I had read it. I had just tossed the petstore book and had started really researching their care just before this. I was getting a couple of different magazines and reading things on the internet. So I can not remember where I read the article. Eveyone keeps saying they never heard of it being done that way but I know for a fact that article existed and that I read it. It is what made me ask my vets about the ovaries.
I had these operations done in 98. Baby had laid eggs each year for the 3 years before that. She has not had any complications related to her developing eggs (and having no place for them to go) since that time that I am aware of. If she developed eggs she had to resorbed them but before the spay she didn't resorb eggs so I do not know. After what Melissa said I had thought about getting them removed to be on the safe side but given Baby's age, how risky operations at any age are, and the fact that she hasn't had problems I figured I'd better not.
This is probably way more information than what was wanted or needed but there it is.
Marie
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Post by prism_wolf on Mar 17, 2005 10:57:12 GMT -8
I vaguely remember a thread in which that was discussed on the AIML. I tend to skip some of the digests depending upon how often I can read my e-mails. I do remember MK askiing you if you were sure. I was never able to follow that thread to the end so whatever MK got out of it is still there for me to search the archives with. Not EVEN to much info. The more there is the more I can understand. Thank you for the details... ;D And for all those who guessed...yes...she is a female who had been spayed about 3 years ago... . I knew someone would come up with ...IK...
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Post by Marie on Mar 17, 2005 12:13:19 GMT -8
The reason it was mentioned on the AIML was because I had asked that since they still had their ovaries could they go through a menopause like humans. I had wondered because humans can lose a lot of calcium from their bones during menopause. I had thought that might be a contributing factor in Baby's back fracture. And that is when everyone said I must be wrong about them having ovaries.
Marie
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Post by IguanaKing on Mar 17, 2005 16:14:36 GMT -8
Nope...wasn't me, V. That was Steph that said that. Anyway, I know the answer has already been given, but I must say that the ig in the picture has very female eyes. I would have said it before, but y'all would have probably thought I was crazy. ;D
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Post by Marie on Mar 17, 2005 16:56:45 GMT -8
Actually I agree with you about the eyes.
Marie
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Post by SurvivorSteph on Mar 17, 2005 20:24:25 GMT -8
Marie, thanks for all that info! Since Gil's my only ig, I have absolutely NO experience with females. It's funny you both mention that about the eye... after I posted, I took another look at her, and thought... "yea, she's a girl... you can see her eyelashes." lol... I know she doesn't have eyelashes, but obviously something about her eye struck me as feminine. Maybe the wisdom that is inherent in human females is really the wisdom that is inherent in females of all species.
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ericj
Full Member
Posts: 50
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Post by ericj on Mar 17, 2005 22:13:46 GMT -8
Maybe the wisdom that is inherent in human females is really the wisdom that is inherent in females of all species. Funny, all I saw was pure evil... Actually, she just looks annoyed. "Why are you taking a picture of me? You know I hate that."
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Post by Merlin on Mar 18, 2005 4:11:26 GMT -8
She looks pretty relaxed to me. Oh no! When they give you that "really annoyed" look you will KNOW it!
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Post by prism_wolf on Mar 18, 2005 10:52:21 GMT -8
Sorry IK...lol. It was Steph...and I agree with the eyes. Icecube had much larger eyes than Zair. They looked very fem.
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Post by IguanaKing on Mar 20, 2005 20:05:39 GMT -8
Yup...how about the eyes on this girl? ;D Its an iggy bank my mom gave me for Christmas one year.
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