|
Post by IguanaKing on Jan 4, 2005 18:42:48 GMT -8
I agree that males challenge more often. The girls, on the other hand, they tend to get just a little pissy just before they lay their eggs. It was just a few hours before Mercury went to work laying her first clutch that she degloved one of my fingers. She gave me plenty of warning, but I ignored the warning. The mop didn't work very well though ,Merlin, I had to use cold water in a carpet cleaning machine. ;D
|
|
|
Post by WillemsMom on Jan 5, 2005 9:31:32 GMT -8
Well, speaking of mopping up.... Willie is going through a real personality change. Last night he resisted coming out with me for our social time. Thinking about dominance, I didn't let him win. We sat down, Will on my lap in a firm grip. I began to hear water running and I thought it was husband in the kitchen..suddenly I was soaking wet. Dear Willie decided to pee and poop on me. I scolded him, but didn't want to reinforce this behavior by returning him to his enclosure. Egads, all Ineeded to do was teach him if he poops on me he gets his way. Fortunately I had a large bathtowl nearby, I lifted Will and Ed spread the towel on my lap. So Willie was on something dry and clean and underneath that I was wet and gooey. To top it all off, Willie sat there in an aggressive crouch just staring me straight in the eye. I think there was a taunt in his look..'See what I can do if you make me do things I don't want to do.' And I never saw him in a crouch like that before. He crouched again this morning when I went into greet him.
Any thoughts on this new Will are very welcome. Diane I'm going to follow your lead. I guess the cuddly days are gone...at least temporarily. Sean, are still able to cuddle with Herc? Do I remember right that you sleep with them both?
|
|
|
Post by WillemsMom on Jan 5, 2005 10:45:10 GMT -8
I missed Willie's friendship so much that I took him out to sit with me this morning. He was horrible. I felt his little lower body rumble. I held him away from me me and firmly advised him not to do that again. He didn't. I have a new thought about this. Willie is scared of me. He doesn't trust me any more. He hasn't been aggressive, only defensive. I wrapped him snug in a towel. I think he felt safe there, because I felt the tension leave his body. He chilled with me for awhile that way. When I put him back, he went right to his pooping place and left a big poop.
|
|
|
Post by IguanaKing on Jan 5, 2005 11:03:29 GMT -8
Ah yes...this new behavior that Will showed you last night is called scuttling. Many reptiles and amphibians do this as a defensive thing when they feel threatened (or, in the case of our pets, when they don't want to be held), including iguanas. Yes, I'm still able to cuddle with Hercules, I did that last night in fact. When I tried to get him to go under the blanket and lie down on the bed, I gave him a little push. He sat there, sideways on my chest for a few seconds, then backed up, turned toward my face and snuggled back down under my chin and fell back asleep. I finally convinced him a little later to go under the blanket, I just had to hold up the blanket, talk to him, and convince him that he wanted to go under the blanket. I can't always do this though, sometimes he is in a bad mood, so I just give him his daily interaction and handling, but I avoid cuddling. Both of them sleep with me, once the lights go out and they're under the blankets, they don't appear to think of anything other than sleep. They even seem to seek each others' company because I always find them next to each other or one on top of the other, even though Hercules tries to kill Audrey when they're awake. All you can do, Nancy, is try to get Will to completely trust and respect you. I emphasize the word TRY, because not every iguana is going to take to this kind of close relationship. Just like us, they have their own, unique, indivdual personalities. Sometimes, regardless of our best efforts, they can still turn out to be monsters. Keep trying with Will though, he might eventually come around, and if he doesn't, it won't be because you didn't try. Edit: Just to make a disclaimer here. I am not recommending that others here allow their igs to sleep with them. It is very important that you know your ig VERY WELL before even thinking about doing this.
|
|
|
Post by WillemsMom on Jan 5, 2005 11:59:41 GMT -8
This is a very important post to me, Sean. I'm glad to know how you handle Hercules and I've very glad to about scuttling.
I'm optomistic about regaining Willie's affection. He's been gazing at me with his head cocked and looking sweet, maybe quizical all day so far when i'm at my pc. It seems there's a fine line between maintaining dominance and losing their trust. We'll be working on this a long time, I think. One other thing I'm worried about is me hurting Will. Now there's a switch.. I'm afraid of squeezing him too hard, or hurting his legs if he catches me by surprise and nearly gets away.
|
|
|
Post by IguanaKing on Jan 5, 2005 13:02:22 GMT -8
Squeezing too hard? I guess you must be talking about holding him when he doesn't want to be held. Something you can try is to move with him...in other words, instead of grasping him so he can't move, try passing him from hand to hand until he calms down. Just remember to stay very focused on the relative position of his mouth and your hands while he is venting his discontent by struggling. Just as a side note on this subject: I believe that forcing an iguana to sit with you by basically immobilizing them is not a good way to foster their trust. Just my personal opinion. You can get them to learn to not struggle all the time by moving with them. This way, they learn that struggling will not convince you to let them have their way, but without the iguana feeling threatened and defenseless as restraining them tends to do.
|
|
|
Post by WillemsMom on Jan 5, 2005 14:33:16 GMT -8
I like this very much, Sean. Thanks. It makes alot of sense. Willie has alot to thank you for. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Diane on Jan 5, 2005 16:43:17 GMT -8
Sean, i'd like to know more about 'moving with him' because when i get Narcy out, i have to keep a firm hold of him (football hold) at all times and then when he starts to really struggle, i do have to clamp down hard on him. If i don't, i'll have an 11 pound 5 foot long iggie tearing into me! Is it possible to do something less intimidating with an extremely dominant male? I'm thinking not, but i'm sure you may have more experience than i do. Usually, the more 'gruffly' i handle Narcy, the more he seems to act like 'hey, she's not kidding around here'! and doesn't seem to want to attack as much.
|
|
|
Post by IguanaKing on Jan 5, 2005 17:01:39 GMT -8
Diane, what I meant was that you still allow him to run, but try to get your hands moving with him. So, when he runs out of one hand, you catch him with the other. Dealing with a more-dominant male might be a little more tricky than that though, what I was suggesting applies more to a younger iguana. However, I can tell you that when Hercules gets "in a mood", I actually get torn up worse if I try to completely restrain him (i.e., the usual left hand around the chest and front legs, right hand around the tail base and back legs, with the tail tucked under my right arm). He's quite a difficult one to restrain like this when he gets pissy, he's 16 pounds and 5'-9" STL. If I do this I get huge abrasions on my right hand from the bottoms of his feet, and nice, purple welts on the backs of my legs from the remainder of his tail flailing around. Both of these things take weeks to heal. If I pass him from hand to hand and allow him to "vent" and calm down, I get the usual scratches on my arms and hands, and those usually heal within a day or two.
|
|
|
Post by Diane on Jan 5, 2005 18:09:48 GMT -8
wow! hercs a big kinda guy eh? actually i have been trying to get Narcy used to his hip harness ( ithink i mentioned this in another post) and tonight he did rather well. I got the harness on him with no major problems and then we walked around the house a bit. this did include a few stops to posture at me and do a couple of hatchet walk circles around me! But when i leaned down to pet him and make him behave he generally quit. he seemed to do less posturing if i walked a little before him instead of following on his heals. guess he felt like i was stalking him! i will have to try to do the passing from hand to hand, it just sounds so awkward with such a big iguana (i am venturing a guess that you are a bigger fella than i am gal!) Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by WillemsMom on Jan 5, 2005 19:07:56 GMT -8
By 'run' do you mean as in on the floor. I thought you meant sort of moving your hands with him while still holding him. I did it with Will tonight, probably wrong, but he calmed down much quickly. I played some of his fav music and kind of rocked him. I didn't want to keep him away from my face. I checked out the size of his mouth and it didn't look THAT big. He wanted to cover my face with little lick kisses and I'm a sucker for him when he does that.
I have really found this thread helpful. I wonder if there's way to put it in a file on my pc.
Many thanks to you, Sean and Diane. Willie is a baby compared to your big guys. If I can get it right with him now, It'll be much easier later.
|
|
|
Post by IguanaKing on Jan 5, 2005 19:52:39 GMT -8
Yup, you were right about what you thought I meant, Nancy. Don't let him touch the floor, if I let Hercules get a hold of the carpet, he'd be impossible to hold back. Its amazing how much stronger, pound for pound, they are than we are. Remember Nancy, his mouth may not look that big, but when he's just a little over 2 years old, he'll have between 80 and 120 teeth in his mouth which are pretty much just like a tiger shark's teeth. They're similar in shape, razor sharp, and have serated edges. Will even has multiple rows of teeth, so a new, fresh tooth is ready when one breaks off...just like a shark. Mercury was just a few months older than Will when she degloved my finger. Their mouths are deceptively harmless-looking and make quick work of our soft flesh. I don't want to frighten you, I just want you to be aware of the power your little guy will possess at a very young age. Diane, I'm 6' 1" 180lbs, not too terribly big... its definitely EXTREMELY hard work controlling Hercules when he throws a fit. To both of you, and anyone else who has an iguana, I recommend the book "Green Iguana-The Ultimate Owners Manual" by James W. Hatfield III. I got this book for Christmas, and it has all kinds of great info in it. I have read 135 of its 600+ pages, and all of the information has been accurate and iguana-safe so far. Its VERY interesting reading for newbies, veterans, and everyone in between. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Merlin on Jan 6, 2005 5:37:46 GMT -8
I agree, Sean, their mouths are much larger than you think they are. Just watch them when they yawn! Remember the old video game pac man? Nancy I know you want Willem to be around your face but its just not safe. He's already bitten you once. You have to respect him for what he is. If you allow him free access to your face you are risking another bite and the next one may be a lot more severe! These guys can do some serious damage if they set their mind ot it. PLEASE be careful!
Absolutely! It should be a must read for any keeper. And don't let the book's size scare you. Its a very easy and entertaining read!
|
|
|
Post by WillemsMom on Jan 6, 2005 14:35:20 GMT -8
I just deleted a kind of soupy post I put up about giving up the kind of physical affection that I shared with Will. I've been spending more time looking at him today, studying him. Clearly he is not that darling huggable, kissable little iglet that he was last summer. And I am ready to ready to be with him in a more responsible way.I think he wants that, too. As Diane suggested, it was probably a warning bite he gave me. He probably doesn't want all that Mommy love he was getting. I think he wants me to see as being more grown up now, and that works for me. Thanks Sean, Merlin and Diane for your straight talk.
|
|
|
Post by Merlin on Jan 6, 2005 16:03:25 GMT -8
Nancy on this sort of subject I HAVE to be straight. Those of us that have been around igs for a while have seen first hand the sort of damage they can inflict and as such have a great deal of respect for those jaws and claws. I feel it is my duty to pass on such warnings as I can. I'd hate to know that someone got hurt when I could have easily prevented it.
|
|