Feds Move to Ban Boas and Pythons

[prism_wolf]

This is serious. I know many of us don't keep just iguanas. In my sig you can follow it to the Exotic Animal Rescue photo album and see most of what I have as far as exotics go. Some of these are my personal pets - and since this will effect my personal stock in the hobby, it also effects me on a rescuers level. Please follow this link and if it makes you angry - good. Respond!!

Feds Move to Ban Pythons & Boas

Here is more info taken from another forum. And please pass this on!
*****************************************************
I will let you decide if you wish to send comments to the US Fish and Wildlife.

Read about the proposal first before acting. If such a proposal goes into law this would be a huge impact on the hobby as a whole.

Folks this is SERIOUS!!!! US Fish & Wildlife is proposing a ban of ALL SPECIES in the genera of Python, Boa & Eunectes (latin for Anaconda). If this is passed, it will ban all interstate trade (that means buying & selling!) or importation of those genera (genera = plural for "genus") in the private sector.

Eunectes = Anacondas
Boa = includes ALL of the Boa constrictor species...yes, your Colombian boas, your red-tails, Argentine, Bolivian, Brazilian...anything whose scientific name starts with Boa constrictor...

And folks, the genus "Python" encompasses the following:

Ball pythons
Angolan pythons
Bloods & short-tails
Burms/rocks
Retics
Timors

This is FOR REAL!!! It is time for us ALL to have a voice & make our feelings known in a polite, respectful yet FIRM way!

THIS IS AN UPDATE WHICH INCLUDES THE NEWS REPORT FROM PETHOBBYIST

COURTESY OF PETHOBBYIST.COM AT:
www.pethobbyist.com/sitenews/index.php?/archives/202-Feds-Move-To-Ban-Pythons-Boas.html[/center]

Feds Move To Ban Pythons & Boas

The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service has made a significant move towards banning the importation and interstate transport of Boa Constrictors and Pythons in the United States.

Quietly published in the Federal Register, the agency is accepting public comments until April 30th. If enacted this will devastate an already hard hit industry, dealing a fatal death blow to a large number of businesses dependent on this segment of the industry and drying up the supply of these pets to pet owners across the United States.

Noted herpetologist, author, former zoo keeper, and one of the leading private researchers and breeders of pythons in the United States, David Barker, had this to say...

This is the formal notification and request for public comments regarding the intention of USF&W Service to place ALL snakes in the genera Boa, Python, and Eunectes on the Injurious Wildlife List of the Lacey Act.

If enacted as regulation, this will ban the importation of said snakes into the USA , and ban all interstate transportation of said snakes.

There is a request made for public input and we feel it will be very important that all keepers with an interest in boas and pythons make written response before 30 April.

If this goes through, herpetoculture as we know it, is going to RADICALLY change, and NOT for the better! No more big reptile shows, because out-of-state vendors wouldn't be able to attend. No more buying your snakes from a breeder out of state. No more herpetoculture as it is right now!

The time to act is NOW!!!!!!!

Send your comments directly to the government here www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=SubmitComment&o=09000064803a565f

This is the proposal found on the Regulations.gov site. I've added the link after the proposal if you would like to check it out.

Injurious Wildlife Species; Review of Information Concerning Constrictor Snakes From Python, Boa, and Eunectes genera
Send a Comment or Submission Send a Comment or Submission | Notification Notification

We, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service or We), are reviewing available biological and economic information on constrictor snakes in the Python, Boa and Eunectes genera for possible addition to the list of injurious wildlife under the Lacey Act. An injurious wildlife listing would prohibit the importation into, or transportation between, States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any territory or possession of the United States by any means, without a permit. Permits may be issued for scientific, medical, educational, or zoological purposes …

Agency: FWS Document Type: OTHER Comments Due: Apr 30, 2008
Docket ID: FWS-R9-FHC-2008-0015 Document ID: FWS-R9-FHC-2008-0015-0001

Site link for the proposal:

www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/ContentViewer?objectId=09000064803a565f&disposition=inline&contentType=html

UPDATE

Once the importation and inter-state transport has been banned, there will be a rapid exodus of breeders of these species, and eventually they will disappear from the marketplace along with a significant number of businesses and jobs. Pet owners will feel the pinch as dry goods suppliers and caging manufacturers stop producing products for that segment of the hobby, and eventually it will be impossible to obtain a new pet boa or python.

To review the USF & W Service proposal, please look at the following document.

kingsnake.com/FWSReview.pdf

kingsnake.com will host a special chat on the proposed federal regulations.

On Friday, February 29, at 10 PM Eastern, in kingsnake.com's Chat Room

Invitations to participate as panelists have been submitted to the following individuals and organizations. As panelists are confirmed we will update this message and the guest list for Chat Week. More panelists may be added as required, and panelists that are unavailable will be removed from the list.

Invited Panelists:

* PIJAC
* Reptiles Magazine
* David/Tracy Barker - Vida Preciosa Intl.
* Kamuran Tepedelen - Bushmaster Reptiles
* Kevin McCurley - N.E.R.D. ~ confirmed
* Jeff Ronne - The Boaphile
* Rich Ihle - Salmonboa.com
* Ralph Davis - Ralph Davis Reptiles

* Jeff Barringer - kingsnake.com ~ confirmed
* USF&W Service
* Brian Sharp - Brian Sharp Reptiles
* Bill Brandt - Gourmet Rodent
* Wayne Hill - National Reptile Breeders Expo
* Eugene Bessette - Ophiological Services
* Bob Clark - Bob Clark Reptiles
* Brian Potter - NARBC/Chicago Reptile House

As the Federal Register outlines, only comments submitted in the format that they have specified will be reviewed. Comments on message boards, BLOGs, and petitions will not be accepted or reviewed. We recommend that everyone focus their efforts on submitting comments using the required procedure rather than methods that will not produce tangible results.

Individuals and businesses may submit their comments at www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=SubmitComment&o=09000064803a565f.

Please take time to review the proposal in full, and only submit comments relevant to the specific requests. General comments and abusive comments are liable to be discarded, unread. Please spell check your comments before submitting them.

LACEY ACT OF 1900
www.fws.gov/contaminants/ANS/ANSInjurious.cfm

The Lacey Act (pdf file) is a law that dates back to the early 1900’s and is one of the oldest wildlife related laws on the books. Under the Lacey Act, the Secretary of the Interior is authorized to regulate the importation and transport of species, including offspring and eggs, determined to be injurious to the health and welfare of humans, the interests of agriculture, horticulture or forestry, and the welfare and survival of wildlife resources of the U.S. Wild mammals, wild birds, fish, mollusks, crustaceans, amphibians, and reptiles are the only organisms that can be added to the injurious wildlife list.

Read This Link About The Lacey Act

www.fws.gov/contaminants/ANS/ANSInjurious.cfm

www.fws.gov/contaminants/ANS/pdf_files/50CF_16_10-05.pdf

WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND SUBMIT

Docket ID FWS-R9-FHC-2008-0015
Long Title Injurious Wildlife Species; Review of Information Concerning Constrictor Snakes from Python, Boa, and Eunectes genera

Document ID FWS-R9-FHC-2008-0015-0001
Document Title Injurious Wildlife Species; Review of Information Concerning Constrictor Snakes From Python, Boa, and Eunectes genera

How to Comment You may submit comments by one of the following methods:

• Federal eRulemaking Portal: www.regulations.gov. Follow the instructions for submitting comments.
• U.S. mail or hand-delivery: Public Comments Processing, Attn: RIN 1018-AV68, Division of Policy and Directives Management, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 4401 North Fairfax Drive, Suite 222, Arlington, VA 22203. Instructions: We will not accept e-mail or faxes. We will post all comments on www.regulations.gov. This generally means that we will post any personal information you provide us (see the Public Comments section).

www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocumentDetail&o=09000064803a565f

This proposal was requested the the state of Florida to the US Fish and Wildlife. When the US Fish and Wildlife puts a proposal forward it is nationwide.

To date there is only one snake and its eggs that is banned in the US and that is the brown tree snake.

My personal feeling is that each state should handle this matter and not the federal government.

[George-n-Me]

wouldn't this also reduce people getting snakes, neglecting them, and then abandoning them?

[prism_wolf]

Why should we stop there then? Why not ban the ownership of animals period? Aren't there another animals other than snakes who are taken in, neglected and abandoned? Have you ever looked in my photo albums at the abused and neglected dogs we deal with in the humane soc I help run? Henry Co. Humane Soc. Photo Album How about giving up your iguana because someone finally got fed up with how many die every year because of people who don't care for them right? Honestly - at a guess - it seems to me many more iguanas die every year than snakes by the hundreds.

This also effects pet supply stores, cage builders, and any other area of this particular animals keeping. There are no iguana breeders in TN (used just for an example) and only a few home-based snake breeders - and it would be crazy to think of breeding when only a small portion would ever find homes in-state when exporting is no longer allowed...so why would TN pet stores still carry supplies for them. They can't make money on something dead on the market. Jobs are lost, smaller stores close, etc. This doesn't just effect the keeping of these animals. It will have a domino effect...and this effect would be the same for every sate.

This kind of ban works only with the people that follow the rules. What this will do is make people go underground. There is still a heavy market for blackmarket reptiles. It happens now with other illegal species. It doesn't keep people from keeping them.

Banning the importation of a species between states will do nothing to alleviate the problems. The state of FL are the ones who have pushed this proposal. They have problems with these snakes because when released, they flourish. There are very few places in the united states where these snakes can survive on their own - so banning the cross-state transportation doesn't even make sense. Not for the reasons they're giving.

This is a stretch of FL's attempt to banning species outright because they have a problem. Yes - it's a huge problem - but it's theirs, not everyone else's. Please read the proposal in the original post.

This is being proposed as a national ban. Why not place the local state government bodies in charge of their own regulations. Set up registering and licensing these snakes for a small fee. Though I'm not a huge fan of being controlled in some other way by another faction of the government - until someone comes up with a better solution than a ban - then I will do what they want to keep who I have. We keep our snakes - they get additional revenue.

There are a lot of responsible keepers out there. Punishing the whole because of what a few keepers have done is pretty unfair. Like - let's hold everyone in for recess because Tommy wouldn't behave.

It's a crushing blow to those who regard their snakes with utmost respect and admiration. Find other ways to deal with this - don't push this one everyone else.

[George-n-Me]

Yes I've looked at your pictures, and I commend you for taking them in, but dont you ever get tired of people not taking care of them? Why not ban other animals, I dont see a problem with not allowing people to have animals that dont belong here. If people have to get a license to have a pet, good, atleast we wont have kids going..mommy i want a _____, and then not take care of it. Buying the license will ensure that people are going to take care of it. Esp if they have to pay out of the butt to get one, your not going to pay lots of money for an animal your not going to take care of. Just get a permit and you'll be ok...heres what the website says... Permits may be issued for scientific, medical, educational, or zoological purposes. Taking in abandoned, injured, or abused animals to rehabilitate them is a huge responsibility and if you tell people about it, thats using it for educational reasons.

Granted some people still wont get a permit, or take care of them, and there will be a black market of animal buying/selling, but isnt there already one?

Sometimes you have to punish everyone for mistakes other have made. The same philosophy is applied to everyday situation, such as school (the whole class has to be quiet for one students loudness) and work (everyone has money taken out of their paycheck because someone stole from the workplace). I have read all of the links you gave me and isnt preserving the natural animals in, not just Florida, but every state Important. I dont know about you, but I would be pretty upset if an animal that wasnt native to where i lived was killing all of the native animals, esp if they showed up because people bought them and then let them go.

So its pretty much, Ban the importation of foreign snakes, or let them kill the native animals.

I do agree with you though on some level, they should take care of it within the state, but maybe they've already tried? It's possible that more snakes are coming into the Florida then they are able to take out, and the wildlife there is suffering. They might have already tried every thing, and now they're forced to do the extreme.

[prism_wolf]

Of course I get tired of the abused, neglected and abandoned! I would LOVE to not offer my services for those animals. Empty my home! Let me sleep at night not thinking about the dog who was found dead at the end of a 2' chain and a D.A. who is an idiot.

We have also rescued pure bred dogs who have paid high dollar for their purchase - just to allow it to starve because they got bored - or it was the kids' responsibility and they were teaching a lesson...so paying those prices and fees is not a guarantee...but it helps.

As for saving the natural fauna - yes - sometimes drastic restrictions are needed...but as I said in the other post -

There are very few places in the united states where these snakes can survive on their own

. Every snake on that list cannot survive the winters past past a certain point in the weather line. They die making them the least threat possible for those other states.

FL waited to long to do something about the invasive species. They are only now just implementing mandatory microchipping for the giant snakes. This will not guarantee the snakes won't get released - and all an owner has to say is it got loose, but the owner will still be held accountable for the snake they owned.

A "for instance" - ferrets are illegal in CA. Literally thousands are owned. CA Wildlife Fish & Game patrol the borders from neighboring states. IF they find a ferret being imported in - they most often confiscate and the ferret has little chance of survival. They are often killed. So - why not FL take the same action?

Pressing the issue onto other states via national governing bodies is the wrong answer. For each state to govern their own restrictions allows for the keeping of these animals if they are no threat to the natural fauna. Wouldn't you think we would have heard by now if there was an epidemic of giant snakes invading the mountains of CO by now if they could survive? Making this a local decision is only one of the things keepers are proposing. This way it CAN be made on a more case-by-case basis - and not because FL wants CO to ban interstate transportation because FL has a problem.

Why not ban other animals, I dont see a problem with not allowing people to have animals that dont belong here.

I agree to a point. I'm on the fence about this one. I don't think iguanas should be kept for all the hundreds that die every year - but I do think they're fascinating and think those that can care for them should be able to. There are some fantastic snakes out there who do incredibly well in captivity, but it's at the expense of removing them from the wild first before established breeding programs to preserve them are available.

This is a stepping stone law being proposed. It will not stop at snakes. What about the overpopulation of domestic cats and feral cats? These do more damage to the country's wildlife than all the giant snakes in FL. Ban the ownership of cats. Licensing obviously doesn't work for these animals.

It's just not a well thought through plan and one I plan to stick to seeing that it not get passed - at least to the scale they're proposing.

[George-n-Me]

prismwolf said:

A "for instance" - ferrets are illegal in CA. Literally thousands are owned. CA Wildlife Fish & Game patrol the borders from neighboring states. IF they find a ferret being imported in - they most often confiscate and the ferret has little chance of survival. They are often killed. So - why not FL take the same action?

I didnt know that they did that to ferrets, and its horrible, but are you saying that Florida should also do that with the snakes. To patrol the boarder and kill them if they are found trying to cross the boarder?

I dont feel thats the solution either. It might prevent them from continuing the enter the state, but it doesnt prevent people from going to Georgia or any other neighboring state and buying one there, its not hard to hide a snake in your car. If they make it illegal to get snakes in the U.S. it'll prevent people from getting them out of state.

Dont get me wrong, I'm all about people having snakes, my brother has one, but I Know that he takes care of him. I have a problem with people getting them thinking theyre cool and then not taking care of them. I'm sure all of you can agree with the fact that all of us here have seen animals, domestic and exotic, that were in really bad conditions because the owners didnt know what they were getting into.

Even though the snakes don't survive in other states, that doesnt mean that people haven't let them go. To me thats the most horrible thing you can do to any pet. In Florida they just happened to thrive with the climate and the menu selection. In a state like Colorado, they would die.

I agree with you that they let it get to far out of control before they finally decided to do something. I would like to know how long theyve known about it, and why they did wait so long to act.

From Florida's point of view, I understand where they're coming from. Theyre trying to preserve the animals in their state. I also see your point of View that you shouldn't punish the people who Really do take care of they're pets because of a problem thats happening 700 miles away. I think its a decision that they wont/havent taken lightly and I hope that they take in everyones point of view.

[Merlin]

If they make it illegal to get snakes in the U.S. it'll prevent people from getting them out of state.

No it won't. It will just explode another black market ecomony and make normal honest people into criminals because their pet of choice is now illegal. As a for instance,...Marijuana and other drugs have been illegal in the US for decades. But it hasn't stopped their availabilty. Just made a lot of money for all the wrong people.

[George-n-Me]

normal honest people wouldnt all of a sudden become criminals for a snake, they would get the permit thats required and then get the snake, if they choose not to, thats between them and the law and the law is trying to stop a problem. and honestly, is it really that easy to have access to the black market? parents arnt going to go out of their way and try to find a black market just so their kids have a pet snake and they arnt in the help wanted add.

I didn't mean to start a debate over this whole thing. I was just saying that Florida has a point, its getting out of hand, and theyre trying to fix the problem. This could aslo be the same problem for states all along the gulf shore's boarder, maybe even southern texas, arizona, new mexico, and southourn cali. Its a possibility, but florida is actually trying to stop it. I'm going to do some research and get back to you on where starts are having problems with released snakes.

[Merlin]

iheartgeorge said:

normal honest people wouldnt all of a sudden become criminals for a snake

Thats where you are mistaken. It is already happening.
People who have owned animals for YEARS, have suddenly become criminals just because the area where they live suddenly decides to ban possesion of a given species (or breed). This animal that they have loved, nurtured and cared for for many years, has never caused a bit of problem is suddenly ordered to be turned over to the govenrment to be KILLED!
I don't think so!

they would get the permit thats required and then get the snake, if they choose not to, thats between them and the law

There is no talk of a permit. It is "we are not going to allow these animals PERIOD!" Why worry about the creation of another regulating body to issue and enforce permits. We will just ban it all.

honestly, is it really that easy to have access to the black market?

Again with reference the drug problem. Its EVERYWHERE! From kids in gradeschools on up to the highest level CEO!
It has been proven time and again with everything from liquor to drugs to guns that an outright prohibition solves NOTHING. If a product is desired and there is money to be made that product will be available.

I didn't mean to start a debate over this whole thing.

No worries about the debate,...thats how veiws and information is exchanged, as long as its done politely and with respect. I think we are maintaning that atmosphere!

I was just saying that Florida has a point, its getting out of hand, and theyre trying to fix the problem. .

So let them control it in Florida! The fact that there is a problem with escaped pythons in Fla is irrelevant to the rest of the country! I live in Oklahoma and an escaped python or boa would not last a month in our fall/winter.
[/quote]This could aslo be the same problem for states all along the gulf shore's boarder, maybe even southern texas, arizona, new mexico, and southourn cali.[/quote] But its not! With the exception of Southern Cal, even these areas have cooler winters that would not be conducive to the animal's surviving.

[George-n-Me]

there is talk about a permit, the first link prism posted it says...

the website says... Permits may be issued for scientific, medical, educational, or zoological purposes.

in my eyes, everyone on this site is educating the public about iguana's, theres even been times where you guys have givin out information about other animals. to me this is education so you could get a permit. I hope thats how that permit will work with it.

[IguanaKing]

Yup, this is something that should be left to the individual states, since the climate in most states in the US is inhospitable to these genera of snake. I'm not sure how they can classify something as "injurious" to the animal population when these animals wouldn't live more than a few days. It is just more silliness and demonization of reptiles, much like the demonization of certain breeds of dog in Colorado...mainly Pit Bulls. A breed that isn't inherently bad, has gained an undeserved reputation through the irresponsible acts of some. As a result, it is now illegal to own a Pit Bull in Denver, and I believe Aurora has also enacted a ban. This has taken away family pets from loving homes. Now, they are trying to do the same thing with another group of animals that some "expert" in the government has deemed as "evil". IIRC, they try to pass this idiotic law every year or two, and they're still asking for input from people about the environmental impact these animals have? They don't know that they are a problem, but they want to ban them anyway?

[Merlin]

iheartgeorge said:

in my eyes, everyone on this site is educating the public about iguana's, theres even been times where you guys have givin out information about other animals. to me this is education so you could get a permit. .

I wish that it would work that way.
But it won't.
What they are referring to are institutions, not private individuals. Even though I spend a substantial amount of time educating people, both here, on HerpCenter, as well as in person, I would not be granted a permit.

[George-n-Me]

oh! well that was a Huge misunderstanding on my part..i thought all people had to do was get a permit and they could have a snake, I didnt realize it was for institutions. I am very Sorry for the mix up.

[prism_wolf]

And I do rescue work - though not tax exempt yet - still working on that - I would not be granted a permit either until I was a tax exempt organization. I must be recognized as such. I already have an employee I.D. number, but the paperwork is overwhelming!

[crazybaby]

I wonder if they will consider a message from me as I am in Canada. I know there is a place where I can e-mail (which I plan to do) for canada, but if I can post one on your first link and do something to help support our hobby I want to. I suppose it can't hurt. I really wish people would be more educated & researched with items like this before simply attempting to ban something that means so much to A LOT of people not only in Canada & US but to those who have industry where these animals come from.

I knew there was a reason I wanted to be a lawyer once upon a time (no longer my dream, but if I was to pick it up again...it would be to try and fight for injustice like this)