|
Post by mar on Dec 1, 2004 14:52:21 GMT -8
Well Bob is on antibiotics (cefadroxal aka Cefa-Drops @ 2cc's daily) and I am noticing that, while the blisters are healing nicely, his food is not being digested as far as before the drops.
My vet should be getting back to me shortly but lab results were not in around noon today, so I still don't know the real problem.
What are some of your experiences with antibiotics and probiotics? Both when you used a probiotic and when you did not? Would you use a probiotic again, if so what kind?
Off to read more on these and call the vet again. thanks.
|
|
|
Post by WillemsMom on Dec 1, 2004 17:15:06 GMT -8
Mark, I over did it with Probiotics in the early days when Will was not eating well. He developed serious diarrhea. I mentioned this to Bob mac and he said yes that happens when they get too much. I had been giving it to Will in a syringe as a gel. Bob also said, in Will's case, he thought once a week would be okay.
When I give it to Will, now that he's through with not eating, I believe it does boost his appetite.
I'm surprised the antibiotics are having that effect. hmmmm. Please keep posting.
|
|
|
Post by dominick on Dec 1, 2004 18:30:54 GMT -8
Mark- Rex is supplemented with a small amount of probiotics once a week. This keep the bad bacteria at bay so it cannot overwhelm the good bacteria. See www.reptileUV.com 's Probiotics page, it has some good information to read.
|
|
|
Post by mar on Dec 1, 2004 18:47:40 GMT -8
Well the lab results were back (around 6 pm today)but the doc is out of the office on Wednesdays. Should be getting word around 5pm tomorrow.
This was the first step in research. Second was reading reptileUV. Third will be talking to my vet tomorrow.
I wanted personal accounts of it and knew that would take time. Rather hear it from someone as invested in our igs as we are that rely a seller of the product alone.
|
|
|
Post by dominick on Dec 1, 2004 19:24:51 GMT -8
Huh. You don't know Bob Mac very well! LOL If it is not beneficial to your reptile, and he hasn't tested it over many reptiles, it would never make it to his site.
He's a responsible seller and Rehabber who has used probiotics long before it was recognized for its beneficial qualities. Similar to his use of B-vitamins to combat the effects of MBD. I only pointed you to that site because of the information written there.
Also Mark, the use of probiotics is just now gaining the recognition it deserves. In the old days folks used plain yogurt to replace gut flora (still works but also has stuff that's not good for the igs.). Up until relatively recently, you, as a hobbyist, couldn't even get probiotics.
Keep researching and sharing. You are right that it is the best way to make a sound decision.
|
|
|
Post by Tesa on Dec 2, 2004 3:16:41 GMT -8
welllllllllll...not EVERYONE does know Bobmac very well. I guess we'll have to take your word for it.
|
|
|
Post by mar on Dec 2, 2004 4:59:21 GMT -8
Dominick, I am not only reading BobMac's site but other sources where I can purchase. Call it shopping around for the best product at the best price. I also want personal tips and reviews (ie. the post on this forum). I want as much info in front of me before I make a decision to use a drug/suppliment -- you should watch me pepper a doc with questoins when they want to give medication to me or Bob.
|
|
|
Post by dominick on Dec 2, 2004 5:08:50 GMT -8
I don't blame you Mark. My comment was more tongue-in-cheek than anything. LOL
I'm interested to see what you find out. Please keep us...posted.
|
|
|
Post by WillemsMom on Dec 2, 2004 14:17:54 GMT -8
Hi Mark,
As I said above..Will is getting a light sprinkling of Nutribac once a week. When I asked Willie's vet about using a probiotic, he thought it was a good idea. You just don't want to give him too much as I did. Can have a negative effect under those circumstances.
Also, I'm looking forward to hearing how Bob's antibiotic is effecting his appetite.
Thinking of you and Bob
|
|
|
Post by mar on Dec 5, 2004 14:46:45 GMT -8
Well I broke two of the hard rules that I follow with Bob. 1) I gave him animal porotien in the form of yogurt 2) I forced some water into him -- ~3.5 cc -- I wanted him as hydrated as possible so the protien was as easy as possible on his kidneys
The antibiotics cleared out Bob's system and I don't think that he can digest his food. His poop has bits that are clearly leaf matter, like the hard thin membrain over the leaf. The poo went from being a smooth dark blob to a chunky brown mess with bits of orange squash in it. What are thoughts on this and why it is occuring?
I gave him a small dolup, ~1/2 t, of plain yogurt last night and will be ordering probiotics when I finish this.
My vet said probiotics would be a good idea and suggested the old stand by, plain unsweetened yogurt.
This is a case where the fix has turned into just as much of a problem as the original problem.
|
|
|
Post by dominick on Dec 5, 2004 16:06:58 GMT -8
My vet said probiotics would be a good idea and suggested the old stand by, plain unsweetened yogurt. Really? This is a case where the fix has turned into just as much of a problem as the original problem. Well, Iguanas are anything but easy. LOL They keep us working, that's for sure. Glad to hear you have decided on a course of action for Bob. He sure is lucky to have such a caring, and diligent, Dad.
|
|
|
Post by prism_wolf on Dec 5, 2004 16:20:28 GMT -8
The antibiotics are certainly killing the good bacteria, but it's ok. It happens all the time. It won't hurt Bob for his antibiotic therapy to finish before giving him the yogart. If you give it during the treatment...the new gut flora will be killed off again.
You can give him a whole tsp. of yogart, because he is a big guy.
An iguanas gut works kind of like a cows. They have more than one stomach chamber. The hindgut is where the food sits and ferments in the bacteria which is used to digest the cellulose in plants. Only true herbivorous lizards have this hindgut. This hindgut which is filled with this microbacteria is located between the large and small intestines with valves to slow down the passage of the food.
There is a bit more to it, but what happens is that when the food sits in this hindgut when the microflora has been disrupted or killed off, the food does not get broken down, so when the valves open again to allow the undigested food to pass through...it goes through the small intestine close to how it went in.
This is also why temperatures are so important. The temps are what get these living organisms to move into action. This is also why giving food in the smallest broken down form the iguana will eat is such a good idea. The larger the pieces, the longer it takes to break down often leaving undigested food and lost nutrients exit the iguana without really reaping the benefits from that same food.
|
|
|
Post by mar on Dec 5, 2004 16:39:24 GMT -8
I "understand" the hindgut firmentation but as the bacteria has been wiped out that fermentation is no longer taking place and that step is no longer occuring. They "shed" the bacteria naturally over time but not all of it in a matter of four days.
Is there any idea how much of the potential energy from the food is lost by not having the fermentation step in digestion.
He just deficated a few hours ago in the tub. Floating in the water I could easily see large portions of leaf intact with veins visable. And orange bits which look a lot like sweet potato and butternut peal when grated. Not the pureed dark slurry mess of a healthy ig.
|
|
|
Post by prism_wolf on Dec 5, 2004 18:32:23 GMT -8
That would be a difficult one to measure. I have never seen anything on energy loss from undigested foods. To many variables I would think.
|
|
|
Post by mar on Dec 5, 2004 18:54:14 GMT -8
I don't think it is really a number that can be found. What I am more concerned with is whether fermentation is where most of the energy and nutrients are extracted. Or is the stage a last effort to pull everything possible out of scarse food sources.
I can see where this stage is where a lot of energy is extracted from the food by bacteria and microbes then the product of the microbial action is what the lizard converts and uses or stores as fat.
Or my understanding can be mostly wrong.
At least I had a healthy, somewhat fat, ig going into this mess. He should be fine for the few days where little is being extracted from the food, if this is indeed the case.
|
|