Hi I'm Pat, home to a rescue

[pfox]

Greetings all,

Let me apologize in advance for a long post.

This situation is not terribly unusual for me, my Partner is a Vet Tech, so we tend to adopt all manner of "throw-away" animals that people bring to the Vet. I play the research game and get up to speed with the newest species.

Latest adoptee is Griswald, whose been with us now about 2 weeks. Poor fella was found in the middle of the highway by a woman. He was no doubt trying to find some heat, as Fall has come to the Pacific North West.

He's apparently fully grown, pretty roughed up, has lost what I can only estimate as 1/2 to 2/3rds of his tail, has at least 3 broken toes, and his face looks like he did a lot of chasing of parked cars. He's a terrible sickly dark brown. He's about 22 inches without lost portion of tail and last Wed. weighed 2.4 lbs.

On the upside, if you can believe there actually is an upside, his bloodwork looks great, even the calcium, and he doesn't appear to have any parasites. Even better perhaps, the little bugger is eating like a cow, and gained .4 lbs in the first week (he was looking pretty boney.)

So, first weekend I had him, I converted the closet in my office to a habitat (the kind that used to have double doors. It's about 6' wide, 5 1/2 ft tall, 3 ' deep. We used a big felled apple branch as the main "Tree", built him a shelf complete with covered (human) heating pad (on low), got some lights to heat it up, and an UV A&B over head. I've used some jute type rope wrapped around thing to help him get good hold.

Finally got the temp up in there to 85 on his shelf, and am working diligently on the humidity. Have read tons of stuff on diet, which seems to be nearly identical (thankfully) to the Russian Tortoises we adopted last year.

So... looking for some input, mostly on behavior and the healing process. I know that eating is a really good sign, and my goodness does the guy eat. I give him at least 2 plates (which are cup saucers) a day, and I think he'd eat 3 if I stood there and held the plate.

He doesn't move around much, though, only going down from his shelf 1-2 times a day to eat and go to the bathroom (seems as if he might be poddy trained). I'm not sure if it's a recuperative lethargia, temperature (not wanting to leave the heat of his shelf), or if it's normal.

Sometimes he seems totally cool with me rubbing his third eye, and sometimes he looks at me like he'd take off a finger if I got too close (read the GreenIg site all about the biting and aggressive behavior). I tend not to be too much with the touch thing yet, but if I felt more comfortable, I'd probably take him downstairs for a soaking more often.

When I DO take him down for a soaking, the bathroom has ceramic tile which looks a bit like sand- he tries to eat the tile with great passion (not like just licking to see what it is). In the office, I've only let him out a couple of times. He makes a B-line to the powder blue bathroom rug, and tries to eat it. What's up with this, any guesses?

His legs are showing a lot of orange, which I saw might be indicative of breeding season - but isn't it a bit late in the year for that?

How long does it take for an IG to get to know you?

Do tails grow back?

Do broken toes heal up to become functional again?

Are there certain angles of climbing that are not function for IG's?

And perhaps a stupid question- when I lived in Florida, there were a lot on anoles around, and a couple of the bigger guys hung out on the back porch. I'd have my coffee in the morning with one of them, and we did this head bobbing thing back and forth for quite a while. Should I do that with Griswald, or will he think I'm being aggressive?

[MAR]

Welcom to IZ pfox.

All of the questions you pose at the end can be answered with "depends".

An ig ge to know you? Age, temperment, and previous treatment all play into this and so far yours sounds rather calm.

Tails / Toes. Depending on where the tail break is some of it may grow back. Toes won't grow back and depending on how they are borken and how the vet treated they may heal back to normal. Many igs out there have toe "problems" which may be brokens, missing a claw or missing the whole toe.

Climbing angles. Again depends on the health and size of the lizard, material of the ramp, sharpness of the claw. An ig will run right up the bark of a tree trunk with no problems. In my cage I have a burlap covered ramp at roughly 75 degrees above horizontal and my adult ig has no problems with it but when he was a little guy with sharp claws I saw him climb a vertical 2x4. You will just have to observe what your ig is able to climbe and what he is not.

If the ig will take that third sauser of food offer it. My ig goes through about 2 dinner plates of food daily. However, don't let the ig train you stand there and feed it. Igs are really good at training humans. It's cute at first but starts to become rather arm numbing as the plate gets heavier and there will be times when you just don't have time to stand there.

Couple questions for you:

what UVB lamp are you using and how close can the ig get to it?

85F is a little low for a basking spot, the ig wants to bask to about 95F in the day. At night anything above 75F is safe as long as the ig can bask in a nice warm spot in the AM.

Sounds like you found GIS, they have a great food page over there, what are you feeding this monster.

[Tesa]

tend to adopt all manner of "throw-away" animals that people bring to the Vet. I play the research game and get up to speed with the newest species.

Kudos to you for making the effort.

At 22 inches, this ig isn't nearly full grown.

and an UV A&B over head

Can you tell us exactly what kind of light it is? Many are packaged with very misleading information.

We used a big felled apple branch as the main "Tree",

Watch for external parasites also...he could have already had them, or there could have been a presence on the tree branch.

Finally got the temp up in there to 85 on his shelf

As MAR stated, the temp needs to increase about 10 degrees during the day. I tend to believe tho that nighttime temps can fall down into the 65-70 degree range without causing any ill effects to the animal.

only going down from his shelf 1-2 times a day to eat and go to the bathroom. I'm not sure if it's a recuperative lethargia, temperature, or if it's normal.

Probably all of the above and as for recuperative lethargia...watch out when he gets to feeling better and decided he no longer wants you in his house. lol

might be indicative of breeding season - but isn't it a bit late in the year for that?

Igs don't follow breeding season rules We've seen it reported in here all through the year.

And perhaps a stupid question

There are no stupid questions.

head bobbing thing back and forth for quite a while. Should I do that with Griswald, or will he think I'm being aggressive?

That depends on the tone of voice you use. ;D
Human head bobs can't possibly look like iguana headbobs (which have several different meanings). I would say just try it, see how he reacts, and if it seems negative simply stop.

Welcome to Iguana-Zone

[pfox]

Thanks for replying, Tesa and Mar.

I couldn't find the bulb box, which I intentionally kept, then put someplace safe. On the bulb it says ReptiGlo 8.0 UVB ExoTerra 15W.

You know how most closets have a shelf, well, when I built the enclosure, I made a wire frame that attaches in the door frame, which left about 6 inches headspace between the shelf that was there and the wall. I put a cage frame over that, and the Florescent light sits on that and shines right down on his shelf. It's about 12" above him. I have a 75w basking light clamped to the outside of the cage shining on him, and a row of 3 incandescent spotlights (30w each) hung on the wall inside his house where he can't reach it.

My enginerring skills are being pressed to figure out how to heat it up any more, but am still puzzling with it.

Two dinner plates? Oh my gosh. I had no idea. Good thing I asked. His one saucer is just about that my 3 torts eat together in a day.

So I start with a shredded salad of collards, mustard, dandelions, and a little lettuce (not iceburg). I add the lettuce for the water. Seems odd to me on all the well informed reptile sites that they say no lettuce because it's mostly water, then in the next breath worry about dehydration.

Then I top it with the veggie salad that right now is mostly butternut, with some green beans, carrot, parsnip, lima. I sprinkle a little ground up alfalfa and calcium/ vitamin powder (and right now his antibiotics) on top of that.

Boy I hear you about the training. I just initially worried about it hurting him to climb up and down (considering the state of his toes). Plus, when I first got him, he was, well, wilted might be a good way to describe it. But his posture now is much more lively and "butch." So I'm trying to encourage him to get a little exercise.

Seems like his nails aren't very sharp at all, I was kind of surprised thinking he could just climb up the trunk, but he can't, so I kept wrapping more rope. Burlap is a good idea, maybe I'll try that. He seems able to get up and down now, but down seems more like a controlled slide than anything else.

What kind of external parasites?

I know 22 inches doesn't sound like much, but that's because so much of his tail is gone. Let me give some more measurements and you guys can tell me whether he's got more growing to do:

From snout to beginning of tail is about 12 " (but I'm just holding the ruler up over him, and not stretching him out straight, cause that would be rude. His back foot, from ankle fold to tip of long (broken) toe is 4 1/4". His back leg from the join to his belly to the tip of his toe is 8 1/2"

The inside distance from his front leg to his back leg (not including any leg) is 6 1/2. "

His head from the back of his shield to the tip of his snout is 2 1/2 inches.

I didn't think trying to measure his waist circumference was such a good idea.

The thickness of his tail at the break is just a hair smaller than a quarter (coin).

Any magic tricks to win an IG's heart?

Also, the spines- will those grow back? Looks like he had a very bad shed, some are missing completely, and some are still covered with white hardened skin.

I mist him every day, and when I put him to soak, I try to dribble water on them to loosen the skin. Three of the spine's skin sheds did come off last soaking, but he doesn't care much for me picking at them, and the vet didn't seem to care all that much about the spines, saying they'd usually rub up against stuff themselves to help, but he doesn't do that at all.

[MAR]

Because of tail drop we usually use a measurement we call Snout-Vent-Length (SVL) I just put a tape over my ig and he is 15.5" SVL, somewhat small for a 10 year old. There is really no way to tell the age of an ig from the size though as so many factors play in (genetics, care, UV exposure, diet, etc)

That UVB tube is a little far away ideally an unfiltered tube should be 6 to 8 inches from the skin of the ig. Plastic and glass will filter out 99% of the UV intensity and window screen will drop it about 50%. If you want a protective cover over the bulb make sure it is a large hole thing (1 cm or larger).

Start stepping th 30 W lamps up to 60 W lamps. If that is still too cool step to 75W. Another thing to look for is a heat projector like those sold from www.reptileuv.com. They are only 60 W but focus the IR energy into a beam which is great for igs and your electric bill.

Burlap was nice but after a year I need to replace it, it just wore out. Those white wire closet shelves make great ramps for cages as do 1x6 boards wrapped in things like indoor/outdoor carpet or manilla rope. I have disliked branches in my cages for the whole time I have had my ig. The are weak for their weight, crack, make a mess as stuff chips off it, and generally hard to get to fit in the cage nicely. Remeber trees are not designed as building material. Some of the new vinyl decking material and lattice work are looking like great things to use. My cages are full of PVC framed sheves and ramps made of canvas.

[Diane]

My Narcy has had some very stubborn spine sheds in the past, a few times i found several layers of shed clinging to the spine. Most of the time i could do a nice long soak while continuously wetting and rubbing the affected spines and eventually when soaked enough i could either slide or peel the old layers off. The ones that had 2-3 layers on them typically had to be started at least by splitting the shed at the base of the spine and more wetting and soaking. Narcy also has toes that were broken at a very young age that healed very crookedly, but they don't seem to bother him or inhibit him in any way. I have a rope wound around his log to aid his climbing.

[SurvivorSteph]

Welcome to Iguana Zone!

It sounds like most of your concerns were answered well, so I'll just comment on a few items:

I add the lettuce for the water. Seems odd to me on all the well informed reptile sites that they say no lettuce because it's mostly water, then in the next breath worry about dehydration.

It does sound funny when you put it like that. BUT we say "no lettuce" because so often that's the only greens that are offered. There's also a danger of the ig picking out just the lettuce and leaving all the nutritious greens. They're brats like that!

Another note about feeding: I use a pyrex pie plate to feed Gil. I heap it with greens & veggies, and he grazes on it throughout the day.

As for the age of your ig: IF (and that's a huge if) his care was proper before you found him, he's probably between 2 and 3 years old. This is just a guess... like Mar said, genetics do play a role. For example, my 3 y/o male, is over 14 inches SVL (snout-vent length) and over 51 inches overall (tail loss with regrowth at about 4 months).

If you decide to head bob at him, don't to it fast and "shuddery" (yea, so it's not a real word... lol). That will most likely be viewed as aggressive.

[Merlin]

On the bulb it says ReptiGlo 8.0 UVB ExoTerra 15W.

A 15 watt 18" tube isn't near enough UVB light.
I use two 40watt 48" long Zoomed Iguanalight 5.0s in a double tube flourescent fixture. But since you are going to need to make the change anyway I would suggest a mercury vapor from Reptileuv.com. However if your situation lacks the overhead clearance for the merc vapor The Zoomed 5.0 lights have been used successfully for years.

[pfox]

Diane, So, how exactly did you "start by splitting the shed at the base of the spine," and should I assume it begins with having a trusting relationship? I guess the real question is am I likely to get bit trying this, and does it pose enough of a health risk to him that I should do it anyway?

MAR- silly me, I have a bunch of those wire shelves in the garage, but thought he'd appreciate a more natural setting. I may be re-thinking that soon.

Survivor Steph, will bear than in mind, I know some folks don't have much sense of balance. For now, anyway, he doesn't seem to pick and choose, with the exception of the little pieces of Red Cabbage I thought I'd try for color, they stayed behind.

Merlin, you're looking pretty cozy there with your IG... is this typical? Are folks and their IG's affectionate?

So two more questions (for now), one general- what's the Karma rating?

Now the dreaded and not for public topic (good thing I asked about Karma before). I have some poddy questions. Now, remember folks, I've never had an IG before. As I mentioned, I have 3 Russian Tortoises, who, when they, er, well, soil in their habitat, it's rather small, quite well contained, and fairly dry. When I soak them, the white "urine" type material is passed (and plenty of other things too). I've had a couple of snakes when I was a kid, and that was similar.

Griswald, on the other hand, has quite a volume, which was shocking, and it's rather wet and not self contained, but more what I'm concerned about, there is a rather large amount of clear liquid in addition to the white liquid. Is this normal? And, well, the "aroma" is quite pungent. Is this normal as well? Controlled by diet?

Thanks for all the input folks, I appreciate it.

[JennaAndIguanaGwen]

Well from what i know about iguana 'poo' i believe that is normal for it being wet and i think the clear stuff is also normal. I do not have my iguana yet but i have had one in the past and i believe that is what it looked like. I'm not sure about the smell though, i dont remember anything about that. Hoped this helped some what. ;D

[Marie]

Hello and Welcom Pat

The Karma is a way for the members to rate each other--sometimes objective but sometimes subjective. You can either add to or subtract from someones karma. I usually go by my own impressions though.

pfox said:

Now the dreaded and not for public topic..... I have some poddy questions. Now, remember folks, I've never had an iguana.....Griswald, on the other hand, has quite a volume, which was shocking, and it's rather wet and not self contained, but more what I'm concerned about, there is a rather large amount of clear liquid in addition to the white liquid. Is this normal? And, well, the "aroma" is quite pungent. Is this normal as well? Controlled by diet?

Actually among iguana owners it is very public. Feces and urates tell a whole bunch about the health of an iguana and is discussed quite a bit. Not only is it normal for there to be a lot it is very desirable--means he is eating well. And the more clear liquid the bette--hydratedr. The lettuce is doing it's job but like mentioned go easy on it. The white stuff should be white and fluffy with no grit. Although occasionally (only occasionally) it can contain some grit and there wouldn't be need for concern. The solid dark should keep it's shape. If it is smelly like you say, you may have a parasite problem. It should not be that pungnent. You should take a fresh sample to your vet to have a fecal exam done.

This is a good article to read on the subject--Feces and Urates: The scoop on the poop

Hope that was helpful. Take care.

[Merlin]

So, how exactly did you "start by splitting the shed at the base of the spine," and should I assume it begins with having a trusting relationship? I guess the real question is am I likely to get bit trying this, and does it pose enough of a health risk to him that I should do it anyway?

Before you go cutting on the ig I would suggest try rubbing a little mineral oil into the spines. Oftentimes this along with extended soaking (30 minutes or so) in warm water will loosen the covers enough to get them off. In extreme cases it might be best to seek experinced help rather than trying to remove them on your own. And yes it is a trust thing! Watch your fingers with an ig you don't know!

Merlin, you're looking pretty cozy there with your IG... is this typical? Are folks and their IG's affectionate?

I don't know that I would call it affectionate so much as trusting. And it may take quite a while to get to that stage. Zok is 4 years old and only within the last year has she gotten to where she is really personable. I have had her since she was tiny. She will clamber all over you particularly if you happen to be eating something that she thinks she wants.
The poo should be wet and large amounts of clear liquid is a good sign that they are getting enough water. Of course there will be some smell (it is poo after all) but really bad odor may be indicative of a parasite problem. We always suggest that new owners take a fecal sample in for a bug check!
As Marie said discussion of Ig poo is quite common among owners. In fact sometimes I would suggest that some posts NOT be read while eating breakfast!
The external parsites that were mentioned would be ticks and mites. Ticks I am sure you are familiar with. Mites are about the size of a grain of salt and reddish or brown to black in color. You will generally see them around the eyes or vent.

[IguanaKing]

Hi Pat, welcome to IZ. ;D

As others have already said, nobody needs to be shy about talking about the poop and many...er...gender-related bodily functions. A little bit of an odor to the poop is to be expected, but, if the poop is just a pile of dark green goo and smells like a septic tank, your ig probably has an internal parasite. This is something I'm dealing with right now with my 10-year-old male iguana who is a little over 18" from snout to vent. Right now, when he poops, its pretty nasty.

A recommendation I would like to make here is that you get "Green Iguana: The Ultimate Owners Manual" by James Hatfield. It is a HUGE book which is packed full of useful information on raising an iguana. Don't let its size intimidate you though, its actually very interesting reading and not difficult at all to get through. Many texts tend to be a little dry and boring, but this one is fun to read. Also, the best place on the web for info (aside from IZ and IguanaCenter of course ) can be found at www.anapsid.org.

Like Merlin said, mutual trust is definitely necessary when in close contact with your ig. In addition to the suggestions already given on removing shed from the spikes, it is also helpful if you put the base of the shed between your thumb and forefinger, gently squeeze while rolling the spike back and forth gently with your fingers. With some practice, you'll be able to gauge when the spike is ready to come off without excessive pulling which might tear the entire spike right off your ig. If, while your pulling and your ig kind of flinches a little, that's a pain response and means you're pulling too much.

On the issue of getting bitten, definitely be careful there, but its also important not to fear a bite. Have a healthy respect for his teeth, but don't allow fear of them keep you from handling your ig. He's still fairly little, so now is the best time to establish a good bond of trust with your ig...the only way to do that is by handling him, even when he doesn't want to be handled. If you do get bitten, try not to panic and pull away. Pulling away will do more damage to both you and the iguana. Usually, shouting or making some other loud noise will make him let go.

During your handling times, just be calm, slow, and gentle and above all, don't let him think that he can scare you away. This is another way an ig trains their owner.

[Diane]

So, how exactly did you "start by splitting the shed at the base of the spine," and should I assume it begins with having a trusting relationship? I guess the real question is am I likely to get bit trying this, and does it pose enough of a health risk to him that I should do it anyway?

My apologies if i led anyone to believe that i actually cut the base of the spine with a knife or blade of some sort. I just tore the base with my fingernails! and yes, if the ig flinches at all it is hurting and best to just let them soak more. The mineral oil helps too, i had forgotten about that.

[MAR]

If you use mineral oil for this be very conservative with it. I still don't want to think about an oiled ig on/in my hands.