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Post by mark42 on Jan 5, 2004 10:18:06 GMT -8
A NOTE FROM THE BOARD MODERATOR:OK Folks- Mark is well within his rights as a pet owner AND a "steely" kinda guy to take matters into his own hands. The Iguana Zone does NOT condone this type of self-treatment in any way, shape or form. This should only be done by a qualified vet. The risk of further injury and infection is great. Please keep this in mind. I shuddered just at the thought of it. Mark, you have some gumption buddy! But it sounds like you were confident in what you were doing. Please keep us updated on the Iguanas progress. Decided to play it safe on the tail... About 3/4 inch had become shriveled and brittle, and was obviously dead. So, last night we amputated the dead portion plus about 5/8" of the live portion (about 1-3/8 total). Hopefully we cut off enough. I'll be watching it closely. How we did it: Wated until he was cool and half asleep to reduce struggling. Used a Dog Toenail Clipper (Picture below). While he was in his cage on his climbing tree we just grabbed his dangling tail, lopped off the end, dipped in stiptic powder, smeared on Neosporin, dipped in stiptic powder again. He displayed his dewlap and hissed for a few seconds, so I waited a minute and then gently pet him and talked to him to reassure him. He calmed down almost immediately. We then put a blanket over his cage and turned the heat up a bit higher than his normal night temp (about 80 degrees rather than 75). He was doing fine this morning when I checked on him (per my wife's request). I thought about telling my wife he'd "Assumed room temperature..." followed by "But that's normal for an Iguana".
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Post by Tesa on Jan 6, 2004 16:29:58 GMT -8
OK.....Im sorry if this offends you Mark, but I have to advise others NEVER to try to do this kind of surgery!! There are certain instances when portions of the tail need to be removed. However, it needs to be done after proper diagnosis has been made by a qualified vet, and the procedure should be performed by a vet. In the case of my iguana, her tail appeared shriveled and dead when I got her. Over the last few months it has fattened up nicely (without any treatment) and now looks good. In other cases an antibiotic can be given to clear infection and salvage the tail.
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Post by mark42 on Jan 6, 2004 19:42:57 GMT -8
He's doing fine... he's sitting on my shoulder breathing in my ear, nibbling at my hair, trying to crawl on my head and onto the keyboard right now. I did get a copy of James Hatfield’s" Green Iguana: The Ultimate Owner’s Manual" and Iguanas for Dummies as well. Can't say I've finished reading them though.(they're both fairly extensive). It's not the first veterenary amputation I've ever done. But I tend to have more of a mindset like a farmer does... animals are not people. They should be treated humanely, and cared for properly, but there are limits to the extent which one must go. I'm not going out in a snowstorm and paying $100 to $200 for a simple procedure that I can easily do myself. I removed about 1-1/4 inch of tail. I am convinced that a vet would have done the same... A vet would have probably played it safe and gone with the more conservative treatment, which in this case was to remove the section of tail that was in doubt. Usually surgery is considered the less conservative (more radical... no political implications here ) The odds that I could even have found a vet that knows about iguanas in short time are not that good... I live out in the country. I also have a lot of training in emergency procedures, and have no problem doing things like stitches and resetting dislocated joints in an emergency. When you live rurally, you have to be able to do things yourself. I would not advise anyone else to do it. I'm not a professional, but I am quite experienced with minor emergency medicine, veterenary and human. It was a procedure that took less than one second, and as evidence that it was not such a big deal I would offer that I was able to handle him (in his calm state) within about a minute, even after disinfecting, cutting, stemming bloodflow (there wasn't much), more disinfecting, and more stiptic application. No one even touched him during the actual cutting portion... we let him stay in his tree (where he feels safe for some reason) and just snipped the end off... he seemed to barely notice, except that it must've hurt because he did react a bit at first. If it had been farter up, in an area where it might have been possible to get in a stitch or two, where the tail is thicker than my ring finger, and more than two inches from the end of the tail, I probably would not have felt comfortable doing it myself, and would have taken him to a vet (like any good farmer would have). I'm not the type of person that would spend thousands of dollars to save a dog or cat. If it is going to cost thousands, and the animal will probably die without the treatment, I will asses if there is a good chance I can do it myself. I've save kittens that would have been put down by some people confronted with either the vet or the pound as choices (had to amputate part of a mangled paw). Remember, doctors learn by practicing... I have my own mini practice when it makes the most sense. A lot of people would have just said "We got the iguana for free... I'm not gonna pay $150 to get his tail checked out... he seems healthy... I'll just wait and see if he gets better by itself. I decided that doing nothing was probably more risky than doing it myself while it is a small simple procedure. As the moderator alluded to, everyone is different. I'm a lot like a farmer... I love my pets, but I do believe that there are a lot of things that don't require a vet. Also, I have a nephew who worked for a vet... and the vet that he worked for would not have admitted if he didn't know; he would have consulted a book or colleagues, and done his best (My nephew did tell me he once had to ride a 6 foot iguana to hold it while the vet was doing something for it). Farmers have been doing amputations for many years... if they had to hire someone to castrate every animal they'd go broke (they usually go broke anyways... I'll post that story later). At least I didn't use my teeth! Anyway, I think the risks were smaller than it may sound, and I wouldn't take a big risk with a pet that my family has become so affectionate towards. While I typed this he has escaped, gone under the futon, came back out, climbed a pile of toys (there's supposedly a toybox under there somewhere), explored, and is now once again trying to get atop my head. BTW, he does have a name now... my son came up with...
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Post by mark42 on Jan 6, 2004 19:52:10 GMT -8
Rocky... I don't know why he came up with it, but my son came up with Rocky, and we all agreed that it was at least an acceptable name. Well, actually, we all liked it, but wanted to see if a name that fit him individually would occur to one of us... but nothing came to mind. Fluffy just didn't work. Puff Daddy fit, but just didn't ring right. Puff was just not full of enough character. So, Rocky it is. Oh, another BTW... keep in mind that my wife does keep me in check on when I have to turn it over to a vet... she wouldn't let me spay the cat in the kitchen... maybe neutering a male dog, but cats are tricky I'll post some more pictures soon. I think I may have to stop typing for a while so I can concentrate on enjoying the scalp massage Rocky is giving me. BTW, Does anyone know why he might be nibbling at my hair? I don't think there are bugs in my hair... and he's supposed to be a vegetarian anyway! Well, I'll be back with pictures soon.
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Post by Desiree on Jan 6, 2004 20:05:16 GMT -8
I am glad your iguana made it through the surgery well. Don't take this the wrong way please. I also live in a very rural area and the closes vet is 50 miles away. I work for one of those vets. It snows here every day and we have had over 60 inches of snow so far. I have been working with animals for over 18 years, and I would have never attempted this. You never know what kinda complications can occur. I have seen a few in the years. I would have waited until I could get him to a qualified Dr. This may have been a needless act. Just keep an eye on the tail now for infections. It can take over a week for infection to show up. You may think everything is great and a huge abcess will show. You never know. So good luck.
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Post by Tesa on Jan 6, 2004 20:14:47 GMT -8
Mark, I'm from hillbilly country too As a kid I used to squish cow poop between my toes just to watch it oooooooze. It sounds as tho you had your bases covered. My only problem is that I do NOT want "non-farmer type" people running across the post and deciding they should try the same thing. In MOST cases, it's best for the owner to take the iguana to a vet. You are an exception the rule (Thank God cause I about panicked when I first read your post) I love that you replied in an informatve way without being offended. As for the hair.....I dunno! lol Thrasher does that to mine too. I really think she is just lick/smelling and the hair kinda gets sucked up accidentally. ;D
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Post by dominick on Jan 6, 2004 20:24:09 GMT -8
Hi Mark-
Thanks for the update. I'm glad to hear that Rocky is doing well.
Well, it would seem that aside from a large amount of Moxie, you have a level and rational head on your shoulders too. Glad for that. And glad that you have a wife to keep you in check! LOL
We have a responisibility to the people on this forum to give the best advise, though I cannot advise them to do this themselves, I am confident you knew what you were doing. It's important that we don't send the wrong message. We don't want folks self-treating to this degree without experience and ummm, let's just say a steady hand! ;D
That's the reason I modified your post with a warning.
As Desiree suggested, and you well know, keep a close eye on the Ig. Igs are slow to present health problems. And usually by the time they do, it's too late for treatment.
Good luck on the continued recovery.
Shock and awe Iguana care can be unnerving to some folks!
Nice job.
Regards, Dominick
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Post by mark42 on Jan 6, 2004 23:02:44 GMT -8
Thanks... I'm still watching him closely. He appears to be a bit tired, but I'm going to watch him closely tomorrow. Earlier, he was in his tree in the living room (yes, he has taken over the house), laying on a branch, and one forepaw (I'm going to say "arm" from hereforward, but didn't want to be taken to task for poor wording), ...one arm was dangling losely, sort of like when a person (or dog) falls asleep on the edge of the couch with an arm hanging off. It's probably just because that was comfortable at the time, or because he was just plain tired... combined with the fact that he is growing accusomed to being in the living room in our midst. He doesn't even get too excited when the dog gets close, as long as he's not down on the floor. He loves to explore... I think it's because he's looking to escape; he tries every window to see if he can find the part where he can get through as well as see out. Anyway, I just checked to make sure he was all set for the night (no, I refuse to admit to "tucking in" an iguana at bedtime ) and he was lying against the screening with one arm under himself. He does sometimes lay against the screen, but he looked like he was either tired, or a little weak. I'll be watching him, and making sure he looks strong and alert again in the morning. I think he's just tired... I took sort of a snow day today, and he spent a lot of the day outside the cage with my wife, and the kids and me. (the kids were on an actual snow day). But I suspect that iguanas are a lot like birds. Because birds are near the bottom of the food chain, when they get sick they don't show that they are sick. This is because showing any sign of weakness would make them more vulnerable to predators (predators would go after the weaker, easier prey, if they knew they were injured or ill). So if he is sick, as you advised, it is something I need to take seriously. That's part of the reason I didn't wait to see how he is doing with the whithering tail end; I figured it is best (if it is going to be done at all) to perform the surgery while he is still strong. His eating has gotten a lot better in the past few days. We'd considered using one of the names from a list of iguana names in one of the books... Gandhi But he's been eating well. His previous owners told us to feed him every 2 or 3 days, so he may have gotten used to that eating pattern when he was young, and may take awhile to catch on to the pattern of eating every day. I still do have a lot of questions, and consult those books daily, usually several times in a day. For instance, I know that they have external eardrums... so I told the kids that since I'm not sure, and since his eardrum is exposed, we should probably try our best not to touch his ear. I also told them that petting his head is okay, but it does mean your fingers are close to where his teeth are, so make sure he's calm when you do. My daughter has gotten pretty good at recognizing the alertness and anxiety level of the iguana by how he is positioning and behaving. Anyway, I keep forgetting to look up whether the ears are extremely tender... but I assume they are, for now. Are there areas that one shouldn't touch on an iguana? I think his spines are probably almost all broken because they almost always lay flat, and only some of them stand up when he gets anxious. We are also working on making sure that there isn't a casing of unshed skin over them (per one of the books we have read). I put him inside my shirt to warm him this evening (I had a short sleeved tee shirt on over a long sleeved tee, and put him between them), but decided that it probably wasn't a good idea... might damage some spines. I suppose they would just lie flat unless he goes backwards, but his spines don't need any more stress than necessary. BTW, if anyone on the forum has a fair amount of expertise, and lives in my area (West Puget Sound), you'd be welcomed and appreciated if you want to stop by and have a look at him sometime. I'm always willing to listen to advice (even if I don't always heed some advice). Anyway, I'm still supposed to show y'all some pictures...
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Post by mark42 on Jan 6, 2004 23:14:24 GMT -8
Rocky and me: Up high, and loving it: I hadn't seen this picture scenario when I took this one, but I later saw the same thing in Ultimate Iguana: Drew, wondering if Rocky thinks he could actually swallow him if he mauled him to death first: (sorry it's out of focus). Drew, starting to get used to Rocky on his shoulder Me, holding him... he's actually comfortable being held this way when he's relaxed.
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Post by mark42 on Jan 6, 2004 23:36:16 GMT -8
Oh, I forgot to mention... I'm not that easily offended. You worded what you said very tactfully, and I understand the concerns. There are some other extenuating circumstances that kept me from going out during the past week or so: My mother, who has been in poor health lately due to a recent stroke, went into a coma, and I was trying to stay near the phone and trying to decide if I should risk driving to Northern Calif. to help my dad. My sister made it to my dad from So. Cal., so at least my dad wasn't alone. She died later in the week, and I've been trying to find a way to go, to be with my family, but it jsut doesn't look like it was meant to be (I sould have jumped on a flight when there was one for $188, but hesitated and the next day they were $600!). But my sister and brother are there (may be there longer than they expected... it's snowing in the extreme North of California, where my dad lives), so I may wait until my dad needs me to be there. Anyway, that was part of the overall chaos (along with a heat pump malfunction and a plumbing leak that I had to fix... and an oil filled radiator type heater that exploded and spewed oil all over the garage). It was a rough week... not the best Holiday. Back on my train of thought... I don't usually get offended easily... I'm used to people thinking that some of the things I do are "extraordinary" or "eccentric", and people are often amazed by how I think. I used to be nuts, but then I got a degree in Aerospace Engineering... so now I'm "eccentric" (an educated nut). But thinking outside the box has allowed me to lead an interesting life, and to have some unusual jobs. It can be a burden, being weird, but it can also be a source of unexplainable joy. See what you've done... I'm rambling and getting all philosophical now. I think it's time for a glass of wine (there's been no beer in the house for several days now )
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Post by Tesa on Jan 7, 2004 6:23:12 GMT -8
1) My condolences to you and your family. 2) I'm so glad you weren't offended!! 3) lmao at tucking him in. ADMIT IT!! "My name is Mark and I am a slave to my iguana." 4) I've never been an iguana, so I don't know how tender their ears are, but Thrasher likes it when I rub hers gently in a circular motion. 5) It appears Rocky has settled in nicely. lol @ him taking over the living room. You are doing a great job. 6) Great pics!! 7) This thread has gotten REALLY long ;D I'm afraid it would be a bit overwhelming to a newcomer. Let's continue this conversation under the "General Discussions" category.
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Post by dominick on Jan 7, 2004 9:52:46 GMT -8
OK, taking the discussion over to there>>>>>>>
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Post by mark42 on Jan 7, 2004 15:35:16 GMT -8
I didn't realize that I was still in the "Introduce Yourself" section. I wasn't paying attention, and forgot that I had placed the story there. I agree, this should not have gone so long in this area... So I'll meet y'all over there. Here's a link to the new thread: CLICK HERE to go to the new thread.
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